ajl
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Posts: 19
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Post by ajl on Apr 29, 2008 21:38:23 GMT -5
Hi everyone,
I found an interesting quote in Emerson's essay "Self-Reliance" that sort of relates to the last page of The Great Gatsby:
"Society is a wave. The wave moves onward, but the water of which it is composed does not. The same particle does not rise from the valley to the ridge. Its unity is only phenomenal. The persons who make up a nation to-day, next year die, and their experience with them."
In Gatsby, the last page talks about how humankind is like a wave in that it keeps pushing onward and receding, always looking to the future. This quote from Emerson sort of talks about the same thing in that while society may move on, it leaves the actual individuals of society behind, like Gatsby, who was stuck 5 years in the past.
Also, the part where it says "the person who make up a nation...experience with them" speaks to Gatsby when we talked about how the Dutch were the first Europeans to land on New York and so they formed their idea of society, yet that idea doesn't fit the people who come after them.
I just thought this was an interesting comparison. ;D
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Post by jend02 on Apr 30, 2008 18:51:56 GMT -5
I also saw a connection between Gatsby and Self Reliance when Emerson says, "To be great is to be misunderstood." In Gatsby, Gatsby is not truly understood by any of the people he meets. He comes from new money and holds parties with "friends" who barely see him and are constantly spreading rumors about his wealth and his past. However, he is still "great," according to Fitzgerald, in the sense that he is his own person, with his own aspirations and dreams that he strives toward. This quality of self reliance is something that is admired by Fitzgerald, and too would be admired by Emerson.
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Post by allil02 on Apr 30, 2008 22:08:59 GMT -5
While the comparison is very interesting and thought provoking, I would like to point out that the wave(society) that Emerson refers to is questioning the importance of "progression." Particularly societal movement, for Emerson would esteem the elusive progression of the soul as "important," rather than the visible onward stride of society. The whole wave which people (like Gatsby) get caught up in, acts as a barrier to true understanding.
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Post by mikef7 on May 1, 2008 14:40:38 GMT -5
I think Jen makes a good point, though I disagree with the idea of Gatsby being totally self-reliant. Gatsby is made of his own dream and lives according to this dream. When it is shattered (the hotel scene when he hears Daisy say she loved both him and Tom), it is the end of Gatsby. If he is so reliant on his dreams, which in turn are so reliant on one person (Daisy), I don't believe Gatsby can be seen as a totally self reliant character.
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Post by danielleg07 on May 1, 2008 21:01:32 GMT -5
The notion that [shadow=purple,left,300]Fitzgerald[/shadow] favored the trait of self-reliance because Gatsby is misunderstood, I think, is unfounded. No one in the novel actually cares enough about Gatsby for him to be misunderstood. Tom and Daisy are "careless" people that do not even try to understand Gatsby and the other characters in the novel only spread gossip about him. He is, therefore, not misunderstood but disregarded in a society that is obsessed with status and wealth. If anyone has a misunderstanding it is Gatsby as he cannot see that he cannot turn back time or win Daisy's heart without status as well as wealth.
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Post by laurenf02 on May 1, 2008 21:19:06 GMT -5
I agree with Danilee. Gatsby needs to open his eyes and come to the realization that he will never obtain what he once had with Daisy. If Gatsby could utilize the very method of Emerson he might have been able to infer this about his life. Gatsby became so consumed with the glitz and the glamour of the upper class in the 1920s that he failed to identify with himself. Daisy allowed Gatsby to create himself, but a recognition of this self was never fully obtained by Gatsby which makes the realization about Daisy, that much more difficult for him to comprehend. Emerson makes a strong point in the notion that in order to connect well with others, one must have a pretty strong idea of who they are. This is certainly an idea that could have aided Gatsby out all those years.
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Post by danielleg07 on May 1, 2008 22:05:44 GMT -5
Danilee...lolz Lauren
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Post by katiem7 on May 2, 2008 11:08:32 GMT -5
I definitely agree with Lauren. Had Gatsby seen the potential in himself to be his own person and had he trusted his own instincts and his own intuition, maybe he would have been able to see who Daisy for what she really was: a fake women concerned solely about appearances. If Gatsby used this sixth sense, I want to believe that he would have changed his entire life. He would not be the Jay Gatsby we have read about. He would still be James Gatz, and although he would not end up with the girl, he would have a better understanding of himself.
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